He takes no RESPONSIBILITY!
This is what four years of Trump has wrought. It’s somebody else’s fault, they’re out to get you, best to double-down on your position, because first and foremost you can’t be vulnerable, you can’t be wrong.
This should not be the end.
I think it’s great that Joe Rogan responded, in a straightforward, everyday manner. But isn’t this the guy who told Aaron Rodgers to take Ivermectin? Isn’t this the same guy who wasn’t vaccinated and said he took a cornucopia of drugs not proven to be effective for Covid and he was cured?
Come on here.
So, he’s just having a conversation.
The truth is with an audience comes a responsibility. Rogan mentions this at the end of the clip, then punts. If more people are paying attention, if you have more influence, you have a RESPONSIBILITY to get it right!
He says he’s going to do more research… Well, he denied the statement of an expert re myocarditis. I mean this stuff is all recorded, it’s not hearsay, but it didn’t happen and if it did it was somebody else’s fault and doesn’t mean much anyway. Like January 6th.
Spotify is a publisher. Just imagine if the “New York Times” got something wrong, Fox and the right wing blogosphere would go INSANE! And then they’d point to this mistake to make the case that the entire paper is not to be trusted.
That’s Spotify.
Does the Sulzberger family read and review every single article that’s posted in the “Times”? Absolutely not. But they are responsible for hiring layers and layers of people who do. Fact-checking is out the window in too many of today’s publications. Furthermore, if the “Times” gets it wrong, THEY PRINT A CORRECTION! Have you ever seen Fox do this? Only when it was SUED by a voting machine company!
I don’t care if you love Joe Rogan, I don’t even care if you’re a Republican, that’s not the point. The point is with an audience there comes a responsibility to get it RIGHT! I haven’t heard Joe Rogan saying any of his anti-vax guests are wrong. He just says he’ll have on an opposing viewpoint in the future. Isn’t this the false equivalency that got us into this mess?
There’s a way to host/cover controversial guests. You prepare, you challenge them, you just don’t accept what they say. Being an uneducated nincompoop is no excuse.
Why is ignorance a virtue these days? And why is expertise denigrated? We want experts to challenge people. Not uniformed bozos.
So Joe Rogan is a man of the people…
You have no idea how dumb people are. They can’t spell, and they can’t understand the facts and they can’t analyze. To this day people think Spotify is ripping off artists. When EVERYWHERE it’s stated that the company gives approximately 70% of revenues to rights holders. Also, Spotify said that it would apply no music subscription fees to podcasts, that it would all go to music. This is public information, just use Google. But no, that’s too tough, let me find a guy I like and then believe everything he says.
Which is why we rely on experts. But Trump and his minions have eviscerated the power of experts and the truth. Do experts get it wrong? YES! Just like that guy who said vaccines cause autism, he faked the numbers, his research has been completely debunked. But people pick and choose their data and don’t care about the truth, and they only care about themselves. Measles were gone, but antivaxxers have brought it back. Just like with Covid.
Once again, this story is bigger than Spotify.
And it’s bigger than Joe Rogan too.
There have been numerous reports how few people it takes to spread bogus information:
“Just 12 People Are Behind Most Vaccine Hoaxes On Social Media, Research Shows”
Yes, money may not trickle down, but information certainly does. AND IT HAS CONSEQUENCES!
“COVID-19 Misinformation is Ubiquitous: 78% of the Public Believes or is Unsure About At Least One False Statement, and Nearly a Third Believe At Least Four of Eight False Statements Tested”
“Most People Who Trust Network and Local Television, CNN, MSNBC and NPR on COVID-19 Believe Little or No Misinformation; Larger Shares Who Trust Newsmax, One American News, and Fox News Hold Many Misconceptions”
Yes, this is a political war, right versus left, the vaccine is just the ball. And the right is privy to more falsehoods and ultimately fewer vaccinations.
This is what we want Joe…
1. Come out and say that these misinformers re the efficacy of Covid vaccines are WRONG! That wasn’t in your video. You just said they had a contrary opinion, and some contrary opinions have proven to be true. That doesn’t make the opinions of the deniers right!
2. State clearly the present facts re Covid and vaccines.
3. Admit there is no mainstream research showing there is any efficacy of Ivermectin in treating Covid. People keep showing up at the hospital demanding Ivermectin and YOU’RE RESPONSIBLE!
4. Admit right up front that you know nothing about something.
5. Even better, research the subject. A late night host reads the book or watches the movie of the guest, you can do this too.
6. Put corrections at the front of each and every podcast.
7. Admit that some people have used the Covid misinformation on your show to their detriment. State the benefits of the vaccine, in numbers.
Lay the groundwork, add some context, correct the misinformation and the issue fades away. Just don’t say you’ve got a little talk show and everybody’s taking it too seriously. As a matter of fact, it’s not only Neil Young who is taking it seriously, BUT YOUR LISTENERS!
Not everything is up for grabs, not everything is unsettled. All the people railing against big pharma have no problem denying climate change when proffered by politicians taking money from polluters. If the facts don’t align with your viewpoint, just come up with alternative ones!
We need accountability. Otherwise people just do the same damn thing over and over again. Joe should pay a penalty, his listeners certainly have, IN SOME CASES WITH THEIR LIVES!
We cannot let the mob control our information and our media. The right wing mob says the election was stolen from Trump when absolutely no evidence of this has been uncovered, when Homeland Security said it was the most secure election EVER!
And the little guys from 1/6 go to jail and Trump pardons Bannon and Stone, allowing them to perpetrate more crimes.
As you can see, Joe Rogan’s misinformation is just the tip of the iceberg.
But I’ll make it simple, when you don’t get vaccinated you hurt the rest of the population. Let’s turn it around… There’s a natural disaster? NO RELIEF! It wasn’t in my area, screw you!
You can’t pick and choose science. If you don’t want drugs that evolved from fetal cells, you’d better not use Tylenol or Advil or Prilosec…
Like I said, you can’t pick and choose your science.
And neither can Joe Rogan.
Daniel Ek Responds
https://bit.ly/3odTLuy
This is SO close to what we want, but it’s still not there yet.
We don’t need to see Joe Rogan go, but we need to see misinformation go. And this screed pulls up to the bumper but does not deliver.
A warning for ALL Covid related content?
This is the false-equivalency that has gotten us into this fracas, this challenge of democracy, that has turned the United States into a bastion of misinformation, giving gravitas to that which deserves no attention whatsoever. The fringe gets amplified just like the mainstream, and then it challenges the mainstream for prominence. This can’t happen. This is what is ultimately leading to authoritarianism ALL AROUND THE WORLD! And coming back from authoritarianism is very difficult. Then again, if there’s an attempted coup, usually the perpetrators are penalized, if not outright killed, to disincentivize coups in the future. But we’ve got Donald Trump last night saying if he’s elected he wants to pardon January 6th participants. As for his reelection…forget the seven plus million votes between him and Biden, the presidency in the U.S. is decided by the Electoral College system, meaning you can lose the popular vote and be elected anyway, can you say 2000, can you say 2016? Which is why Neil Young and the rest of the MAJORITY are up in arms that the MINORITY constantly gets a pass. In truth, the odds of Trump being reelected in 2024 are quite high, and the ground has been laid for the results of the election to be contested if he doesn’t win. Talk about sowing chaos. This is why we need things clearly defined re misinformation, re Joe Rogan, on Spotify.
No, podcasts with MISINFORMATION must be labeled! That’s how the rest of the already recalcitrant platforms do it. And sure, this requires some judgment, but if someone says the earth is flat, or that there are thirteen inches in a foot, it’s quite clear. If someone says vaccines result in worse Covid infection outcomes it’s clear that that is plain wrong, and those perpetrating these falsehoods must be labeled. On Twitter they give you a strike for MISINFORMATION. Why can’t Spotify do this?
Because it’s afraid of pissing someone off.
But what did they say in the sixties, when Neil Young started to have an impact? YOU’RE EITHER PART OF THE PROBLEM OR PART OF THE SOLUTION!
Spotify can’t skate here. Its policy re Covid info is just like Trump saying there were good people on both sides in Charlottesville. End result? MORE ANTI-SEMITIC AND ANTI-MINORITY BEHAVIOR! If you let something slide, expect more of it. And if there are rules, the perps try to skate around them, like Texas with its abortion law. And it looks like Texas is going to get away with it. The majority of Americans want the protection of Roe v. Wade but it will be out the window and they will lose their rights. It’s a slippery slope and Spotify must pick a side, must enter the fray, must add some clarity, not pass the buck. TO WHO? Who is going to decide these issues? We no longer have faith in the Supreme Court, stacked by Mitch McConnell, a mealy-mouthed prick who with a straight face changes the rules on a whim. You can’t confirm a Supreme Court justice for a year before an election if you’re a Democrat, but if you’re a Republican? Trump gets Amy Coney Barrett confirmed in a matter of days before the vote. Talk about losing faith in the system.
So, a majority of Republicans believe the election was stolen, that Trump won. They’re enacting heinous voting laws throughout the country to ensure a Republican victory next time, but Daniel Ek is passing the buck. But in truth, corporations rule in the twenty first century. We don’t pay our fealty to “artists,” sold-out whores, but companies! People believe in Apple, not some singer or rapper. So it’s corporations that have to make the decision.
And the truth is Daniel Ek is in Sweden, which has an anti-immigrant fervor, but is so far advanced beyond America socially it’s not even funny. That’s right, those on the right consider Scandinavia a hotbed of socialism, but they’ve never been there, nor almost anywhere else. Sure, you pay more in taxes, but you get a ton of services in return, like free health care. And the truth is if you take care of all the citizens, especially those on the bottom, you have a less striated society with far less unrest.
But forget Daniel Ek being in a bubble, too many of the bloviators are too! On Bill Maher’s HBO show Matt Welch was saying there was no civil war coming, that at most a few hundred people would take up arms. HE SHOULD BE PRIVY TO MY INBOX! That’s the problem with those on the left, the talking heads, they really have no idea what is going on in the heads not in their socioeconomic group. Or they get their news from national outlets that get it wrong too. The “New York Times” and the rest of the national outlets completely missed the Trump train in 2016. I hear from those on the right all day every day. And if you don’t think they’re agitated and willing to take action…you have no exposure to them.
Sure, Daniel Ek wants Spotify to be agnostic, try not to offend anyone. But that will never happen. And today’s announcement won’t appease Neil Young and Joni Mitchell and Nils Lofgren and Brene Brown and… Pulling your music from Spotify is not something you can do with a finger snap. Most of the big artists don’t have that right. Their recordings are owned by others and oftentimes the publishing too. And if they’re licensed…the terms may not allow them to unilaterally pull the plug. Hell, David Crosby says he stands with Neil but no longer controls his content, then again, if he cared that much he could call Irving Azoff, who does, who has been a champion of artists’ rights forever.
Yes, it’s not only Daniel Ek and Spotify who are afraid to take a stand, it’s most of the artists too. I hate to tell you, but you don’t appeal to everybody, no one can, and by taking a stand your fans become more enamored of you. How come only those on the right understand this? Kid Rock? Aaron Lewis? On the right you don’t have to be afraid, but on the left??
As for providing a hub for accurate Covid information… Ek is as knowledgeable as it comes when it pertains to the internet. Getting someone to click is the hardest thing to do. Which is why everybody who is trying to do it employs click-bait headlines. Come here for accurate Covid information! That’s anything but sexy, and if you really care you can find this information with a cursory Google. But the people believing in Rogan’s proffered insanity, which can result in death, have no interest in the truth, “truth” is now a team sport, you believe what you want to believe, and people are not getting vaccinated because that’s the mantra of their team, forget science!
And in truth, these mega-platforms reach more people than traditional outlets like the “Times,” “Post” and “Journal,” that’s why this war is being fought on Spotify!
And in truth, Spotify may be an audio content company, but without music it’s dead in the water. Music is its power, what brings people in, it’s the gas at the service station, few would stop at the attached mini-mart if they didn’t need fuel.
And what has Spotify got to lose here? Labeling misinformation? I mean are you really gonna get in trouble with the right for this? And also, in truth, Rogan has got a big audience, but it’s very narrow. If you kicked Rogan off completely you wouldn’t lost many subscribers. Whereas music reaches EVERYBODY! And you’ve got to know more acts are going to line up behind Neil as the days go on.
And plenty of them need to be shamed. Tom Morello? Bruce Springsteen? Bruce sold his rights for $500 million and now he’s silent? Are his hands tied? This is another reason not to sell your rights, you lose control, you lose power, and no amount of money can buy that back.
Meanwhile, Neil Young keeps gaining power by the minute. All those jokes about the younger generations not knowing who Neil Young is…THEY DO NOW! And his image is burnished, he becomes even more of a legend. All the classic acts worried about their legacies… If you take a stand, maybe you’ll be remembered!
And we know rock and roll. There’s a leader, a few other heavyweights get involved and then everybody is knocking at the door to participate. Expect Styx and Debbie Gibson to take a stand down the line, they want that ink!
Now if you negotiate, you know you always ask for more than you want and you never take the first offer. Daniel Ek’s post is a first offer. We’re willing to let Rogan stay, but we need more. It’d be best if offensive podcasts, those laden with inaccurate Covid info, were not hosted, but at least label them. And don’t label those that are truthful, why should everybody be tarred with the sins of Joe Rogan and his misinformation?
Neil Young has proven the power of a musician. Do you really want to battle with him and so many more? There’s no way you can win. Spotify’s image will be tarred forever, and online, when there are options, image is everything. There are alternatives to Spotify.
So Spotify, you got caught in a kerfuffle at the bleeding edge. Do you want to be like the record companies? State alternative facts, like CDs are better? And then tar every file trader with the brush of copyright infringement without investigating why they’re trading, and the advantages thereof, even suing them in the process? And for all the b.s. of the burgeoning of file-trading being about the cost, i.e. free, then why in hell is everybody paying for a Spotify subscription? You’ve got to listen to the customer.
And here the active customer wants fairness and truth, they want a stand against the misinformation taking down our society. I mean what are Neil and his compatriots asking for? TRUTH? I didn’t think that was such a big ask.
And by not delivering it, Spotify has lost billions in market value. And Facebook stock bounces back because there are no alternatives, and the company owns Instagram and WhatsApp too. But the world does not need Spotify, there are alternatives, maybe not as good, but VHS beat Beta.
We need more. Not only Neil Young, but all of America. We need something we can agree on. Facts. Facts are not fungible. The sun comes up every day. And if you’re not vaxxed, the odds of dying are double-digit times higher than if you are vaxxed. And forget all the self-reported VAERS numbers, and RFK, Jr.’s idiocy, in truth the number of sustained negative vaccine effects are INFINITESIMAL! And the vaccines were not developed overnight, but over YEARS AND YEARS!
Ivermectin? Remember when it was hydroxychloroquine?
Birth control pills. You heard it here first. They cure Covid, absolutely! I just made that up, see how easy it is? But to come up with facts, to do the science, that’s much harder. Like creating Spotify to begin with. Come on, there’s no alternative facts in programming, it’s all 0’s and 1’s, it either works or it doesn’t, so Daniel Ek knows facts better than almost everyone, people like Joe Rogan and Aaron Rodgers and… who know how to fight in the arena but have no idea how to program.
We need more.
