CLEVELAND, OH (CelebrityAccess MediaWire) — The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame has denied a controversial report claiming that the Dave Clark Five actually pulled more votes than Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five, but was passed over for induction last week.
A FoxNews.com story by Roger Friedman, citing anonymous sources, claimed that Jann Wenner, Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation chairman and Rolling Stone editor and publisher, insisted that Grandmaster Flash be inducted in order to add the first hip-hop act to the hall, despite the rapper getting six less votes than the British pop act.
Cleveland’s The Plain Dealer reports that Joel Peresman, president and CEO of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation, insists that the Fox News story was wrong.
When asked if the voting was manipulated by Wenner, Peresman told the paper, “No. There is a format and rules and procedure. There is a specific time when the votes have to be in, and then they are counted. The bands with the top five votes get in.”
Peresman told the paper that the only thing new about the induction process was a reduction in the number of voters. “We used to have 1,000 people who voted,” Peresman told the Plain Dealer. “But we looked at who hadn’t been voting over the years and took them off the list. Now we have about 560 or 570 voters. And of those, we have about an 80 percent return in votes.”
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum President and CEO Terry Stewart told the paper this is not the first time the Hall has received this sort of charge.
“It’s aggravating because these kinds of anonymous sources and accusations serve to confirm the beliefs of anybody who feels their favorite band should have gotten in,” he said.
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five were inducted to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame on March 11th, alongside R.E.M., Van Halen, The Ronettes and Patti Smith. –by CelebrityAccess Staff Writers
Lefsetz Weighs In: The Dave Clark Five Flap
I don't believe the Dave Clark Five belongs in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Oh, they had a few good tracks, but they mostly just filled the vacuum, followed in the footsteps of the Beatles. Goddamn it, the U.S. was Brit-band happy, and we needed another act!
Not that that kept the mania from reaching my doorstep. I bought the first two Dave Clark Five albums. "Glad All Over" and "Bits and Pieces" were classics, but the rest of the first album, with the exception of the band's take on "Do You Love Me", was disappointing. I was expecting more Beatles, an act that had you loving every track, instead I felt the black and white cover of the album was a cost-saving measure, although I did want to emulate Mike Smith, he looked cool, didn't he? As for the second album, except for "Can't You See That's She Mine", it was dreck. I stopped after that, I didn't go to see their movie, they were just following the Beatle blueprint, there wasn't much to believe in.
Not that I mind hearing the old hits on the radio now and again. As stated earlier, they were good. Good enough to anoint the band legendary status? Interesting question. But if they earn the votes, they should get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
"Rolling Stone" changed my life. Not only did the magazine focus on my passion, music, it allowed the writers to go on at length, allowing you to bask in the subject. "Rolling Stone" was our magazine. Oh, it changed over time, but we still read it. Until Jann Wenner blinked and changed the format. Believing the false "Blender" circulation numbers, Mr. Wenner made all the articles shorter, and featured so many record reviews with so little depth of analysis that you could no longer read them. Oh, we used to read the reviews of acts we had no interest in, to be edified, to be informed, but now there was nothing left to learn. And music…music no longer drove the culture.
Which is maybe why Mr. Wenner moved on to gossip. It seems gossip is the rock and roll of today. Actually, I'd argue that technology is the rock and roll of today, but it comes with a dividing line. Between those who know how their computer works and those still using AOL. Gossip can be understood by anybody. And Mr. Wenner has done very well in the sphere with "Us".
But rock and roll, rock and roll has languished.
You'd think that Mr. Wenner would see this as a crisis, try to change the culture, instead he just featured more bimbos on the cover of "Rolling Stone" in an effort to move magazines.
Still, Mr. Wenner sees himself as an arbiter of truth, as someone who stands up for what's right. All the way from the seventies, the sixties, to today.
Yes, "Rolling Stone" questioned authority, in depth, way back when. With not only Hunter Thompson, but Timothy Crouse. You had to stand up against corruption, you had to reveal what happened behind the scenes, you had to inform the populace of how their institutions were really run.
And "Rolling Stone" still does this. Featuring not long ago an article by Robert Kennedy, Jr. delineating how the Republicans stole the 2004 Presidential election.
Who stole the 2007 Rock and Roll Hall of Fame election? Was it this same Mr. Wenner?
Roger Friedman of Fox News seems to believe so. He published an article (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,258664,00.html#2) delineating how the Dave Clark Five got more votes than Grandmaster Flash, but the latter was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and not the former.
Is this true? I don't know. But you'd think if it isn't, Mr. Wenner would hold a press conference, post an e-mail on his magazine's site, make a fuss. Hell, he stands up to injustices in every nook and cranny of society. But when he is involved… Silence.
Or maybe, as implied in the article, it's an issue of rules and regulations. That the Dave Clark Five wasn't ahead when the polls closed. Well, "Rolling Stone" has always said the rules can't be rigid, that they must be bent to fit society. Funny that Mr. Wenner would adopt the strategy of the Republicans regarding Florida in 2000, as opposed to having a desire to make every vote count.
And look at how that 2000 election turned out. If Al Gore had been President would we be in a war in Iraq today? Would 9/11 have even happened? Would pollution regulations have been vacated?
You see one little slip, one major slip, does make a difference. It has consequences.
I think we all believed in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Because it represented what was most important to us, music. Sure, we railed about who has and has not gotten in. But we liked that acts were recognized, were given a stamp of approval, additional longevity.
But what if the process is tainted, what if it's failed? If we can't believe in our institutions, what have we got?
I don't need to believe in Jann Wenner. But I don't want him messing with my institutions. Sure, he gets credit for helping establish the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but George Bush has a program that keeps alcoholics off the street. Most people aren't all bad. But when they're bad when it counts, that's important.
We need an investigation. Who will do this, I'm not sure. It's not like the heads of the major labels are trustworthy. And a bunch of the music industry lawyers…well, there's the same problem. But someone's got to check into this. And if what Mr. Friedman says is true, Mr. Wenner must lose his job. Must have nothing to do with the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame ever again. Oh, he can visit the museum, but he can't nominate, can't vote, certainly can't chair and must stay home and watch the ceremony on television. Sure, Jann Wenner has done a lot for rock and roll, but Pete Rose did a lot for baseball.
So Jann… Say it aint' so. Or do what you always urge the politicians to do. Lay it on the line, tell us the truth. We may not forgive you, but we'll accept what you say. Do it in the name of the Hall. it's bigger than you, it deserves its dignity.
And, if what Mr. Friedman says is true, the Dave Clark Five has to be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame immediately. No waiting till next year. A half hour on VH1. Where they visit the paralyzed Mike Smith, where Dave Clark reveals history of the formation of the band, explains why the albums are unavailable. When someone is fucked over, you've got to bend over backward to right the wrong.
Assuming there is a wrong.
So Jann, what's the truth?
The Industry Responds to Lefsetz
Famous Toby Mamis:
Very well said, though I think they DO belong in the Hall. They made their own records, they were not "produced" by anyone else. Dave Clark owns the masters, which is why they've been relatively unavailable. He's stupendously rich and doesn't need the money, only wants to do it his way. Which may be the WRONG way these days, but it's his decision.
Then again I also think the Hollies belong.
P.S. and what about the issue of the overhead of this "charity" and the minimal contributions to anything resembling a worthy cause from their coffers?
Thank you!!!!!!…I remember when The Beatles first were on the radio and the chills I got the first time I heard Murray the K play a Beatles song on WMCA…I can recall hearing the Dave Clark 5 on the radio as well but they never seemed to grab it the way The Rolling Stones, The Kinks and even The Animals did…There was nothing earth shaking about them….I was in a band back then and never once did anyone call out to us to play a Dave Clark song….Plenty of Beatles , Stones and Kinks but never DC5…The DC5 were not pioneers they were Johnny Come Lately Followers…A Hall Of Fame is for Pioneers…..But if this year's crop is any indication then I guess the DC5 are shoe-ins….
Yup….I haven't agreed with you often lately.
However there needs to be an investigation of this matter.
If what has been reported is true, it is in fact a "stolen election".
And it's not about either Grandmaster Flash or the Dave Clark Five. It's about the "process"…
I think the DC5 should definitely be in the Hall of Fame. No,they didn't produce great "albums" of material, but they had a lot of hits and they were good hits that sounded great on the radio. Many of the acts that have been put in the Hall were singles acts and that's no shame in my book. I grew up with and worked on 60's Top 40 radio and that's all they played. I also saw the DC5 live in the summer of 65 and it was a fun hit-filled performance.
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame fulfills the same function as all other industry awards and enterprises: promotion. Those associated with it may or may not be sincere. It may not do its job especially well, and it may or may not be corrupt, but why get so worked up? It's like worrying about whether a guess-your-weight guy at the carnival is honest or not. Either way, does it really matter?
If anything, awards shows and halls of fame are true reflections of the music business when they're riven by politics and when they seem capricious, incoherent or underhanded. How else would we know, for sure, whether it's the music biz?
Wenner stopped mattering at least a generation ago, but he's been whoring along on the tattered remnants of RS's glory years ever since. If you want to read the best magazine in the world right now, read The New Yorker. Edited by David Remnick (whose book on Ali, "King of the World" is a masterpiece) and art directed by Francoise Mouilly (wife of Art Spiegelman, creator of "Maus") it's consistently brilliant, week after week. And the cartoons are better than ever.
Yes, The New Yorker.
Peter Ryan (aka Gwynfor online):
I can tell you one person who never gave a flying fuck about the Rock and Roll Hall of Famously Promoted American Artists with Good PR Men and an In with the Media. Me.
Do we need an institution to tell us who is famous? I thought being famous made you famous? Is Kate Bush not famous because she's not in the USA's Hall of Fame? What about Lynyrd Skynyrd (note: they're in), Lonnie Mack, Pearl Freakin' Jam and hundreds of others?
Britney Spears is famous. So freakin' what?
The real members of the Hall of Fame should be the hundreds, nay thousands, of acts that had good material, were talented musicians and pursued their dreams of creating the music they loved while holding down jobs, going to college, raising families and existing in the real world instead of baring their ass to the first A&R man who came along and asked nicely if they minded lubing up first. That's rock and roll, no matter what genre. Being the punk kid in a psycho-Christian mid-Western Bible Belt town. being the goth kid at a preppy high school, not because they wanted to be cool but because, like their music, it was who they were.
That's why bands like Sigur Ros and Norwegian neo-proggers Gazpacho are so impressive. Take Gazpacho for example. They all hold down full time jobs, and yet still manage to put out an album every year of achingly beautiful music. Go take an hour of your life, get your hands on a copy of Gazpacho's "Night" (I'll get a copy sent to you if I have to order it from Norway and send it to you from Australia myself), wait for the quiet of the night and lay down on the floor with your head between the speakers, like you did when you were a teenager, and play the cd. That's rock and roll. Glorious, sublime music made with passion by people who live in the real world. Gazpacho don't have a label. They're unsigned. They have MySpace, a website with a forum and word of mouth. New style rock and roll. They only just got a booking agent for Holland and Germany. When they were supposed to be support band for a gig in Oslo and the headliners pulled out they took over the venue, paid all the bills and headlined the gig themselves. Why? Because they thought they could make it work, and they had fans they didn't want to disappoint.
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is nothing but a commercial venture. It's a mutual backslapping society with as much integrity as an awards show run by the cable channel featuring only it's own programs and "stars". Like LA, it is a bejeweled sarcophagus concealing the rotting, fetid corpse within.
Rolling stone is now the worst magazine of all time.
No agenda,no opinions-just 3/5 for every album so it doesn't offend its advertisers. It has the worst rock n' roll writing of all time and is in the thrall of an acts that sells gold. No wander no-one cares about the US music press, it's fawning rubbish written by clueless people looking for 'worthy' bands to support. The exciting bands of today will only be written about by RS in ten years when they become 'classic'. Wankers.
Hey Bob! I've drunk too much wine!
Jann Wenner is/was a groupie!
The Dave Clark Five made some great singles but only a drongoid would buy their albums. The Rock'n'Roll Hall Of Fame is/was and forever more shall be BULLSHIT!! "Rolling Stone" wasn't as good as "Creem". Don't take it all so damn serious! Your limey ally.
As far as talent goes, do you really believe that Percy Sledge belongs in the HOF based on one great single?
You're SO wrong on the DC5's talent. Listen to their hit single "Anyway You Want It" and tell me anyone else made a record that year that did what they did 11 years earlier than The Ramones. This record pioneered that sound. Yet the DC5 could churn out songs like "Because" which remains a beautiful, timeless classic of the era.
The DC5 definitely belong in the HOF.
Well, if this is true it really stinks.
If you're old enough to remember, The DC5 were THE rivals to The Beatles for several years during the early British Invasion. I'm talking pre-Rolling Stone era now so let's adjust our thinking…think back to Tiger Beat and the other teen mags that all jumped on the British invasion bandwagon. Many magazines featured split covers extolling the on-going Beatles vs. DC5 rivalry. The DC5 had an enormous string of hits, as their 1993 2-CD best-of release on Hollywood Records finally proved without doubt.
Dig it: Glad All Over, Bits & Pieces, Do You Love Me, Can't You See That's She's Mine, Because, Anyway You Want It, Try Too Hard, Catch Us If You Can, I Like It Like That, Reelin' And A Rockin' and on and on…
This group was BIG TIME in every sense of the word. The problem was that they failed to make the "coolenees" curve into the hip, psychedelic era and The Beatles kicked their asses as a result. It was compounded by the problem that Dave Clark owned all their masters and stupidly kept them off the market for over 35 years, practically missing the CD era entirely and only belatedly coming to the party in 1993. By then: they were toast and totally forgotten. Nice move Dave Clark (who looks rather evil these days after what appears to be numerous facelifts).
So, it's no doubt that they got a gazillion votes from us boomers. They were British Invasion royalty, y'all. Don't get me wrong, I think that Grandmaster Flash also deserves a place in the R&R HOF but not to the exclusion of the DC5. Frankly, I detect a "reverse racial bias" here, trying to be inclusive of the pervasive Hip Hop Nation, but skewing the vote away from the DC5, if that actually happened, really sucks. The Message was an important cut, I'll admit. I ran around telling everybody that American "dub" had arrived when it came out (it became rap instead, of course), but WHAT ELSE did they do after that?
OK, go ahead…name it. You see?
More proof that the music business is ALL about politics and the real stuff is going on under the radar elsewhere. Die, monster die!
they made crazy sounding records that were very influential sonically. a compressed sound at the brink of distortion. still some of the most exciting recordings you'll hear. i believe dave clark owns his own masters, very forward thinking for 1964. why gene pitney and not them? i don't know the politics of the r'n'r hall fame but i went to a few induction ceremonies. they serve a nice piece of fish. i'll bore you with a quick story from 1992. i was lucky to be sitting at a table pretty close to the stage. bobby bland had just finished giving a moving speech about this was his life, most of his friends were dead, performing was all he had left and how honored he felt. he left the stage on the verge of tears and made his way over to my table. there was an empty seat next to me and he sat down removed his hat and started weeping into his beret. there i was comforting bobby blue bland, a man i never met but whose records had always been an inspiration. i can't really remember what i said but he seemed appreciative, regained his composure and made his way back to his own table. i can only hope to have the opportunity to do the same for dave clark.
Jann Wenner is a disgrace and a hypocrite… He needs to get the hell outta the R&RHOF! He can no longer be taken seriously.
Other then the songs of the Dave Clark Five you mentioned, I have had dumps that are more memorable then the rest of their imatative crap. Dave Clark was interested in money not music._
You can't write an article one day and say the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame is irrelevant and then come back another day and talk about it being a hallowed institution that stands above it all.
I have no idea whether DC5 got more votes than Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five, but I do know that the RRHOF is a plaything of the same people that you rail against everyday, and Jann Wenner is an integral part of that particular establishment.
If there has been vote rigging than all that would do is once again prove that there is no real difference between right or left, liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican…it is really about, and always has been about, who has the power. Those who have the power typically do what they want. They play by the rules or ignore them as it suits them…why? Well as it was once explained to me by someone who was playing hardball with my life at the time; "We are doing this because we can."
The reason people look up to someone who lives by an actual code of ethics or honor over a lifetime is because it is hard…and it is a a rare individual who can do it. So, we applaud those who do.
Whatever else you may think of Jann Wenner, he is first and foremost, a businessman. Rolling Stone may have once been his passion; but it is clear, by the editorial decisions he has made over the past few years, that the magazine is no more than a piece of a business enterprise. The magazine has no soul and neither does the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. They are both much less relevant than the music companies that you have already assigned to the trash heap of history.
It is sad if the powers that be robbed the DC5 of their moment in the sun. But, it is a meaningless pursuit to try and instill a meaning or purpose to an institution where there is none.
The thing that's most innovative about the DC5 is that, in a day and age of routine record-company over-reaching, he managed to retain ownership of the masters… By making all of the other band members his "employees" and by paying for the recording sessions himself, as opposed to letting the record company do so. This is what enabled him to do a multi-$$$ deal w/ Disney Records a few years back after the original license ran out. While I'm not sure, it may have been the "earliest" deal of that sort.
Bob, this is completely outrageous. I don't think the DC5 belong in the Hall either (If they do, so do Gerry and the Pacemakers). But that's not the point is it? Here is man who helms a magazine who has done a pretty good job of exposing this current presidential administration. And he turns around and engages in duplicity himself. Can you say hypocrite? If the Hall ever had one ounce of credibility, it was buried along with Mr. Ertegun.
Hard for me to get excited about whether Dave Clark Five makes the Hall Of Fame or not, can't find their recordings unless you go to flea markets(I've got some old beat-up LP's). Why won't Clark put out some collections? I've read that there are CD's from Eastern Europe but they are bootlegs, even have 30 or so songs on each disc and nice booklets.
Very interesting analysis Bob…or should I say "analogy". In a sense, your query is nearly rhetorical. Because you hit the nail on the head here with Jann. And the same applies to Bill Clinton, the entire Kennedy clan, and most activist liberals en masse: "the rules only apply to those I hunt – not to me!"
Funny how both the libtards and conservatards BOTH feel so damned privileged. Sort of like the RIAA and their lawsuits for file-sharing. Wenner would not in a squillion years EVER allow an investigation, much less admission to his wrongdoings. He delights in allowing a forum for leftists like RFKJR to blather about with his Oliver Stone-esque revisionist history, presenting so-called "evidence" which would never hold up in court.
All the while, RFKJR cavorts with the dictator of Venezuela who is oppressing and crushing the poor people in his home country and (like Castro) has taken away their personal freedoms and nationalized their freedoms of speech and press (yet RFKJR thinks THIS is okay??). Hey Roberto El Kennedio? You bitch about freedom being blindsided in the USA but you accept cash money from this Communist dictator who steals freedom from his starving citizens?
Likewise, the Democrats rail about Scooter Libby lying to a prosecutor – while ignoring the fact that Clinton's NSC honcho Sandy Berger blatantly broke about 50 major felony laws in destroying classified documents (and said it was okay??). Shit – the Dems are starting to look as crooked as the Repubs.
Wenner bitches about Bush promoting global warming (get real)…yet he never asks RFKJR or any other Kennedy to explain why Teddy's fat ass has never been indicted for the blatant murder of a blonde on Chappaquiddick. See the conflict here? Liberals like Wenner are all about righteousness and transparency and doing the right thing – EXCEPT when it comes to them. THEY feel they are the exception, are special, and are above the law (and after Teddy and Bill Clinton – they might actually be).
I am not a partisan politician, but am the most centrist person alive (like most of America if they had the true choice). We are liberal on some things, conservative on some things – but don't vote for ANYTHING simply because it has a party affiliation. Anybody voting for a person to lead them on the basis of a party nomination is not a voter…they are a GANG MEMBER.
Wenner and his ilk are no better than the Wolfowitz, DeLay, nut-job far right wingers…same stripes just a different color. The righties shit bricks if you take down the 10 Commandments and the lefties shit bricks if you call someone a faggot or pick on jews.
And Wenner shits bricks if anyone challenges his authority. So you BETTER WATCH IT Lefsetz, or you will be forced into Political Correctness Rehab (like Mel Gibson, Michael Richards, Isaiah Washington, John McCain, etc.) if you challenge Wenner. They'll call you a "homophobe" now.
Pathetic little scene these asshole baby boomers have built for themselves. Hope they're happy. Just don't count on OUR generation (born 1969-1980) to wipe your asses and clean the mess. Because we're taking your Social Security and Medicare funds and throwing a party with it. Just like we used to do whenever you went outta town for the weekend!!
I've been trying to write something to convey the impact Rolling Stone had, when I first discovered it on a newsstand in London back around 1968.
You've done it better.
"And if what Mr. Friedman says is true, Mr. Wenner must lose his job."
Which will be pretty tough, since he supposedly appointed himself Chairman after Amhet Ertegun's death, notifying the other Hall committee members by written announcement. Nope, no vote, no discussion – just Jann doing his best Alexander Haig impression.
Although it was a brilliant and necessary magazine in its first decade, Rolling Stone hasn't been viable for thirty years. Jann Wenner compromised his values a long time ago and isn't interested in anything except perpetuating his own legacy, even if he has to fabricate the events along the way. Wanker!
ps – I'm still cringing over Paul Shaffer reading that (cough) "telegram" from Phil Spector after The Ronettes induction. Wasn't he campaigning right up to the last minute to have them *not* inducted?
I think it was in 1965 that the DC5 sold more records than the Beatles. Not that they had the depth of the Beatles. Or the hipness of the Stones. But the Vox organ and the late Denny Payton's sax and Dave's stomping drums made a sound that rose to the surface. I still think that the blueprint for the E Street band is the Dave Clark Five. And it's a sign of the times when a Wenner thinks he can fill the shoes of an Ertegen. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is a joke. It should be shown live, start to finish. I was ticked when Neil Young didn't show up for the Buffalo Springfield induction, when Stills, at the podium, looked over his shoulder at Furay and joked, "He did it again Rich". But in retrospect maybe Young had a point. Maybe the edited love fest that is overseen by people with narrow agendas has less to do with music than with giving Robbie Robertson a chance to play his guitar on television. So does it surprise me that the votes were fudged? Not at all. Maybe if Dave Clark was from Staten Island he'd have a better chance.
Clearly, the Dave Clark Five doesn't belong in the Rock Hall. But how do you justify the very unorginal Bob Seger induction?
This is a joke right? Nobody is seriously proposing this, I mean that would be a joke….right? Freddie and the Dreamers, Gerry and the Pacemakers, Peter and Gordon waiting in the wings?
I really liked your last column about the DC 5 and the RRHOF.
There was one song though that you left out of the Dave Clark 5 catalog, I think.
It was a great make-out song, a great slow dance song circa 1964-65 or so…I know because I was there. at a high school dance or 2…do high schools even have school dances anymore…?
"Just give me one kiss and I'll be happy,
just to be, just to be here with you…."
Do the DC5 belong in the Hall of Fame?
Who cares?…they played their part in the 60s British Invasion. And it was a good part to play.
The Beatles were a tough act to follow and the DC5 did fill the gap for six months or so. Like the Searchers did or the Zombies, etc.
As the Weavers once sang "Wasn't that a time?"
I loved "Bits and Pieces" when it came out…now when I hear it… it seems sorta heavy handed, I'll admit…a rock stomp…Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I appreciated your comments about Jan Wenner….someday someone will write a bio of this guy and it will be as they say in publishing…a helluva read,,,
For some reason I get this endless subscription to RS…and there's this style/car/fashion issue that shows up in my mailbox.
Like the last few dozen issues, it so leaves me so behind, and rightly so, I am so out of that demographic …BUT
At least the rag/mag is still publishing hard-hitting attacks on the political establishment.. Matt Taibbi or whatever his name is probably the most no-holds-barred political reporter there is right now…Ya gotta be thankful for small miracles
I used to have the first issue of Rolling Stone with John Lennon on the cover, but my mother threw it out…
I AM FUCKING TIRED OF EVERYONE AND ANYONE WHO IS PASSING JUDGMENT ON WHO GETS IN TO THE ROCK AND ROLL HALL OF FAME!!!!!
For Christ's sake–it's only rock and roll to begin with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For all the flap on Patti Smith–hello? She was the stand out of the evening!!!!!!! Why? Cuz she's an ARTIST THAT MATTERS, HAS MADE A DIFFERENCE, and can ROCK!!!!
Are there clear criteria for what it takes to get in??? Or is it a group of people who set up some "special club" who decide? Pardon me, but it seems that it is the latter–which sucks big time! And you know why? ROCK AND ROLL IS ABOUT REBELLION NOT SAFE LITTLE SQUARES WHERE WE "VOTE" FOR SOME SORT OF ELITE!!!
Bob, maybe you're too young to appreciate the Dave Clark Five.
They had there OWN SOUND AND REALLY ADDED TO THE FABRIC OF THE DAY. THEY SHOULD GET IN JUST FOR THE KILLER ECHO ON THEIR VOCALS!!! I saw them live and they were fucking great! THEIR SONGS WERE PART OF THE MAINSTAY OF THE BRITISH INVASION. How many acts were the Beatles or the Stones? Not many, but so many were an INTEGRAL PART of the scene and the culture.
A bunch of you folks are waaaaaay too invested in all of this "who gets in" bullshit! A lot of you compare it to the Baseball Hall of Fame–BUT THIS IS NOT BASEBALL–IT'S FUCKING ROCK AND ROLL!! And the list of those not in will immediately bear out my point!
but isn't it time you stepped back from giving a flying f*ck about the R n R Hall of Fame
The R n R Hall of fame has always been about industry favors, nepotism, backslapping and NYC black tie bs and had nothing to do with anything to with what you know as "rock n roll"…
every year that this fiasco continues it's obvious the only participants to respect are those that don't participate
and we all know that…
& I know you need fodder for yer letter and such…
First you railed that Patti Smith didn't deserve to be there, when she got the votes, which just made you sound like a grumpy whiner…
Then you say that if Dave Clark 5 got the votes, then they should be in the hall, even if Patti Smith doesn't?
We all have our own Rock n Roll Hall of fames in our minds… and I have room foom for The Dave Clark 5 & Patti Smith in mine, and Grandmaster Flash… and Alice Cooper
and Brad Delp
and every time I listen to their music, close my eyes & drift away…
they are all there… and i save on booking a trip to Cleveland…
have ya been to Paul Allen's EMP up in Seattle…it's what the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame should be…
remarkably free of politics…and full of ephemera…Paul Revere & the Raiders get ups, punk flyers, Grandmaster Flash's turntables, Jimi's guitars…
they screen doc flicks, sponsor gigs etc
give it a look see sometime if ya haven't…
no one bitches about it…because it is cool
I wish Hunter was still alive. He'd get to the bottom of this.
RIP good doctor…..
I liked the Dave Clark Five – Still do, how many #1's or top 10's in a row did they have. They were a vital part of the British invasion. Their tours opened doors for dozens of other British acts….Didn't Harrold Davison have something to do with them?
I remember years ago sitting in the waiting room at the old Dunhill Records office on South Beverly Drive and in came a very familiar face – smartly dressed, that familiar, well manicured black beatle bob haircut…..It was Dave Clark himself….He was there to meet with Jay Lasker about a master….and when pressed about his whereabouts over the past few years, stated that he had been selling Malibu real estate for a living…….!
Regarding the Dave Clark Five, ….The guy and the band deserve to be in the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame….If GrandMaster Flash did not get the votes then why….Oh, now they are "programing" the show…..Do you think they got the "black audience" they were looking for?…..And why isn't Tom Dowd in? Hey, Keith Olsen should be in……I am bumm'ed!
What do they say about those who protest too much………Jann, you became your enemy, you became the establishment and now you are "making the rules" in the back rooms like all those we all fought so hard to overcome…….My generation is a constant disappointment..
Perhaps we need to know the who, what when where and why behind the R&R hall of fame.
James Lee Stanley:
the hall of fame has turned into the hall of bullshit. the dave clark five? patti smith? how about inducting everyone who ever made a recording between 1954 and 1970? i weep for my industry, i weep for my country. and i miss rolling stone. i don't know what this new thing is but it isn't rolling stone.
Get over it. Why are you still talking about this? You told us the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame means nothing. We believed you. Because you always tell the truth. Fuck the Dave Clark Five. I've met a lot of English musicians. They all tell me, there were a lot of great bands in England at that time and still today. I don't think you realize how competitive it is there. I'm telling you now, it's fucking fierce! I don't have time to tell you how hard it is to tour in England or do anything to help your career. The Dave Clark Five? Are you fucking kidding me? Grand Master Flash are so much more deserving. They started Rap. And they were so cool. Haven't you seen the video? I know you think I'm a nobody, but my father in law used to go see the Beatles at the Cavern before they were the BEATLES. I married into a family of Liverpudlians. You think I didn't get a dose of music history? Old John boy was a Jazz freak on top of that! And he had the nerve to tell me I was wasting my time in the music business. Hello? Every time he hears Penny Lane he starts crying. A bloke from Liverpool who witnessed the greatest band of all time. And by the way, he was a union leader of over five thousand men on the Liverpool docks. He's no fucking idiot. We all have to move on man. Let's get going………
A band that should definitely be considered to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of fame could be …Golden Earring. They had, if I remember well, at least one , if not two Number One hits in the US, with "Radar Love" and, before that, with "Back Home". On top of that, this dutch band never, I mean never, stopped touring and the two frontmen are still working their "ass" of on stage.. Rock and Roll from the lowlands, but still great.
Michael Wijnen (Dutchman, living in Paris).
Mike Smith was a childhood hero right next to Macca and Richards and Dave Davies. I always had a thing for the 2nd guy in the group, the player behind the leader.
Greetings from "Music City, USA," Bob,
I applaud your efforts to 'set the record straight.' A friend e-mailed me the Roger Friedman piece last week. I could not believe what I was reading. Not only the flap over the DC-5, a band I booked in the mid-60's–but also the revelation that Jann had anointed himself (or is that 'appointed?') Chairman of the Rock HOF Foundation.
If BOTH of these accounts are true, I'm not only greatly disappointed in Jann, but also disappointed in the other committee members–and HOF officials–who would let it happen to OUR Hall of Fame.
But let's face it, not allowing the DC-5 to be inducted is no more insulting than not having already inducted Quincy Jones, The Crickets, Bobby Vee (who filled in for Buddy Holly the night following 'the day the music died'), and the Rock & Roll Trio–Dorcey and Johnny Burnette and Paul Burlison. Their early Memphis rockabilly sound were an inspiration for Elvis, Buddy, Ricky Nelson–and even the Stray Cats. They would certainly more than qualify under the 'early influences' category. In reality, they should have been inducted in the very first few years of the HOF.
The Rock Hall has a LOT of catching up to do. I hope the flap over the DC-5 will be the straw that breaks the camel's back and that legitimacy will be restored to the nomination and election process.
When I first saw the blurb about this in HITS last week I had to laugh. Yet another blunder from the RRHOF. First the Patti Smith debate, which I disagreed all along on her viability. A funny event happened at a recent sporting event with the topic of conversation being overheard by a woman in her late 30's saying she loved Patti's music and she should be in, especially with a song as good as "The Warrior". Need I say more?
Next, not allowing David Lee Roth the opportunity to perform was the latest travesty. There is no excuse whatsoever for that to happen. I would think it could have been easy enough for VR to work up a version of VH's cover of You Really Got Me at the least. I bet even Sam and Mike could have joined in on that. There had to be a way to make something like that happen.
Then comes the Dave Clark Five story. Bob, say it ain't so? The voting process is tainted? The DC 5 were THE first rival band to The Beatles. Remember all those mags when you were a kid; The Beatles VS The DC 5 ?? While we all know The Beatle knock out punch probably had them first in line, the DC 5 were still an amazing band with great hard rocking roots (Glad All Over and Bits and Pieces) along with great ballads like Because. They belong as much if not more than anyone in the class of 07.
At this point though I really don't give a hoot because there are arguably 20 acts that should be in that aren't. They should just change the name now to "Jann's Place" so it can all be justified. Thankfully this is a forum we can vent to, not that it means a rat's ass to having any changes come from this.
The ultimate polished turd. I don't follow the rock n roll hall of fame inductions much. They lost credibility many years ago in my opinion. But you know the old saying that they have sunk to new lows. DC5 has no place and I repeat place in any hall of fame. They were lightweight fluff from England…ya that's all they had going for them, they were English.
I just had to weight in on that one.
In a vacuum, maybe not. But, in relation to others who made it, of course.
Hits-More than ANY other British act, other than the Beatles and Stones. Remember, Bob, they dethroned the Beatles in 64/65, at the height of Beatlemania!
Influence-Just ask Roy Wood and Jeff Lynne. And every other aspiring drummer.
Sound-Sonically, one of the most unique sounds, ever. I know the lyrics were trite, but when you listen to "Anyway you want it", and "Can't you see that' she's mine", you are hearing something original and powerful. Who sounded like that? Reminds me of a different kind of "Wall of Sound". Until "Rubber Soul", these 2 Bands were neck in neck, to me. Then of course the Beatles ……took off to places never before dreamed of.
Dave Clark mishandled their legacy. No doubt. But nothing accounts for the travesty that the Hall has committed, before, and including this horrid little story. I felt the same way re; The Rascals,(elected at least, but apparently under appreciated). Until last month when your readers displayed their affection. I hope the same reaction occurs here.
Charles Crossley, Jr:
As if right on cue.
Joel Peresman, in the Cleveland Plain Dealer entertainment section, the place that usually breaks all news concerning the R&RHoF, says it isn't true. However, the article doesn't say whether or not he addressed the main issue; were there late ballots that weren't counted? He only addressed that there's always been a voting cutoff.
I've been following this story, but didn't say anything until it started to go worldwide because it was a Fox News story. I've been burned by Fox News on the R&RHoF before. For example, take Suzan Evans. Evans was a bankruptcy lawyer who met with Ahmet Ertegun and Jann Wenner and laid out how the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame could become a reality. She then became the Executive Director, whose main job was coordinating the Induction Ceremony dinner every year. Last year, Fox News said Evans was "ousted" from her position. USA Today said she was "leaving" but remained on the Board of Directors. Guess what? She's still on the Board.
Here's links to those two stories.
Fox said Suzan Evans was "ousted"
USA Today said Suzan Evans was "leaving".
After that, I'll take a local paper like the Cleveland Plain Dealer over Fox News until the Fox News story is otherwise proven reliable.
I have a question. This is only hypothetical. Peresman says around 80% of the ballots were returned this year. Okay, let's say two weeks after the ballots are due, 100 ballots come in all for Joe Tex, so that Joe Tex now merits induction. Should those 100 be counted, and the act inducted alongside the rest who have already been told they were going to be inducted, even though those 100 ballots were two weeks late?
If you would count the 100 ballots that were two weeks late, you should count the handful of ballots (if the story was true) that were a few days late.
I'm actually surprised they would even look at the late ballots, though. I would think they'd have been thrown away.